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Bravo to men who are willing to simply be upstanding adults when our culture makes it clear that only weirdos are interested in kids other than their own. Mom in the second story is a control freak, and her son just happens to an available person to control. I think a lot of bubble wrapping is about control, and kids are just the unfortunate victims. Your photo reminds me of when I was a kid. We lived four houses down from a corner gas station. We had one toilet for a family of 8.

I know that when I was a kid I would have been horrified to use the ladies room with a boy there! And most of the boys I knew would have loved for a chance to get a peek at the girls using the bathroom! Not because they are perverts, but they are naturally curious. As for the play equipment, I believe it is designed so that it is safe for the kids who are able to climb it on their own.

The worst was a couple weeks ago at the changing room at the pool this kid totally checked out my boobs. It was awkward. Totally unremarkable for him, in fact, I sent him there from his seat, since I trusted him to be able to find it on his own.

This was really disturbing for my friend who also had her own son with her he was maybe 6 months younger than mine. Her M. Even I started to panic after a few minutes, and I asked a man going in to look for him. He came out shrugging his shoulders. I was totally bewildered. Had the kid evaporated? A few moments later he came tearing down the causeway toward the bathroom, laughing.

His mother dissolved in sobs as she embraced him. You totally missed me! She was furious with ME. Same for guy at urinal, etc. Can we please separate these issues?

Someone seeing you nude in a place you know there are other people is not a violation. Through the peep hole, yes. In a public rest room, no. I think its great to teach kids to be independent and would choose to parent my children that way when they are older currently only 3 and 9mths.

But who cares if someone sees you?

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In all honesty it is probably much healthier for all involved for kids to see real people naked and not just the pornographic enhancements they will find on the internet. Our progression of personal privacy in the 20th century is simply amazing. Most of us have been raised with sensitivity toward that and it should be respected.

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Craig, thanks for the reminder. Growing up as a girl and an only child has some disadvantages when it comes to parenting boys. Good grief! Heather welcome. Funny aside, I was in a grocery store washroom that had a sign saying you should wash under running water for 30 seconds. But the water auto-stopped after literally seconds. I mentioned it to the checkout lady, and she, and the bagger, burst out laughing. Obviously a topic for them. I think that kids should be encouraged to be independent but getting all hot and bothered about an 8 yo boy perving on you in the bathroom or getting worried about them sexually engaging with your daughter in there seems like over reaction.

I have to supervise my year-old son to brush his teeth correctly. I think some people are in denial regarding how early kids actually get these ideas. Of course they get the ideas from older kids, but they can and do start in elementary school. It does not help our kids if we are blind to this fact. A boy that age is very likely to sneak a look at a woman or girl in the bathroom.

There is nothing sexual about it. It is pure curiosity. Last year when DH and I were going on vacation, we stopped at a rest area along a busy interstate highway. It was almost deserted, broad daylight and just outside of a medium-sized town. I came out of my stall and almost walked into him!

Apparently, she had taken the girls she had with her into the large stall and left him standing there outside the stall door. When I walked back that way, she was pulling him into the stall with herself and the girls. I was quite embarrassed and a little bit angry - for both him and myself - to find him there.

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I raised three boys, and would never have done that to one of them. Poor DH had to listen to me rant about this for the next 50 miles of the trip. Not too long ago, my family and I were out at a busy local pancake restaurant on a Saturday morning - in a town in South Orange County CA commonly rated as one of the safest in the nation.

He needed to use the bathroom right around the corner from the register, where I had full view of the doorso I sent him in alone. Her entire family still thinks I was being irresponsible. But I guess growing up with a free-range dad and a helicopter mom is still better than growing up with both parents hovering. Brian, M then 57 and 9 year old boys did not want anyone seeing them naked at that age, but it was more than that, the little girl was making comments about the boys equipment, and suchshe had no business being in there in the first place, and as for the 1 in 10 being gay, may be that is so, are you assuming or insinuating then that all gay people are checking everyone of the same gender out when they are in locker rooms?

Why, because there is a huge stigma in society on men, and single men in particular as being a threat to children. That is the attitude that needs adjusting IMHO. Ditto the pool at the recreation centre up the street.

Emily - just curious - once you were out of your parents grasp, did you totally rebel. Chris-No, I never rebelled by not brushing my teeth. I agree. When I was growing up, the YMCA had that rule, although it was never really enforced, and the minimum age for the adult change rooms was 16, so the result was pubescent girls being made to feel extremely self-conscious in the GIRLS' change room, being stared at by little BOYS, who weren't quite so little anymore.

A lot of people complained mostly about that, but sometimes about the reverse problem as welland the YMCA's "solution" was to put up a "teen change area," which was a small room, in OUR OWN change room, where we could supposedly change without getting perved on. The problem was, there was no door, and it was only designated as a teen area from Monday-Friday, p. Needless to say, I started using the women's room at 13 or The Y has since bult a family change room, but they were more than half a lifetime too late for me.

Oh, and when I was in university, there were no kids' change rooms funny, could that have been because a university is a place for ADULTS? As for the monkey bar thing, when I was a kid, we found away around not being able to reach.

Back then, the equpment consisted of wooden posts and platforms, and metal monkey bars and ladder rungs. So, when we wanted to reach the higher bars, we'd find reasonably sturdy sticks, and put them in the holes to use as footholds. Ironically, I think my mom the same mom who didn't trust me to brush my own teeth at night taught me to do that.

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I should have mentioned, that when I did not help my kids on the monkey bars, and they REALLY wanted to do it, they learned how to shinney up the pole so that they could do what they wanted to do.

Which, had I been helping them, they would not have learned how to do. Like Emily said. When there is a will, kids will find a way! I thought it was his way of getting out having to help out with the kids.

Plus, we have all those little boys in there who certainly spray more than the average full grown man! Never had a mishap in the 3 years since, but several chuckles and positive reports from adult men when they hear me ask him if he washed his hands. But it definitely is NOT the same thing if they were to run into an opposite-sex friend in the pool house. That is completely unacceptable, and I too am glad for the posted rules about ages I am also in the Chicago area, although not in the city.

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I had enough trouble dragging my three year old nephew into the female bathroom! Had to take two year old neice. He was quite convinced he was a boy and not a girl, so therefore did not belong in the girls bathroom! I know this is kind of off topic, but I agree CrazyCatLady. I am a great proponent of not helping kids up play equipment or other climbing structures.

It was my rule for trees too. And she did of course. My daughter - now 7 - is the best tree and cliff climber I have ever seen. I am actually totally against helping kids in playgrounds. With the exception of pushing the swing maybe. I had a friend who used to always hold her child when she went down the slide. I was quite horrified when I discovered that at the age of 3.

My daughter was walking up the wrong side of the slide soon after she learnt to walk! Only when there were no other kids wanting to go down - I was a nazi when it came to playground manners, I have to admit I never held her or helped her. As for older boys in female bathrooms, I have not seen it here. Kids have a knack for wanting to do things for themselves eventually, even if helped at first.

I found my child more motivated to find her way up the monkey bars when she knew that she could actually get across once up there. To each their own when it comes to playground equipment. I DID help my child on the playground although never held her hand on the slide and at 6 she is still the best tree climber of her group, can scale vertical poles like a monkey, can walk up the wall holding the rope, climb any rock wall and do any monkey bars within her wingspan sadly, not all of them are when you still wear toddler clothes at 6.

And she probably got a boost and encouragement the first few times she tried any of those things. And yes, I was over the moon when my girl learnt to push herself on the swing! As was I when she learnt to wipe her own bottom. This reminds me of a post awhile back on the FB WhattoExpect page asking what ages we would let our kids to into public restrooms alone.

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I was shocked and disgusted at how many said they would NEVER allow thier child go into a restroom alonenot until 18 yrs old! Even the slightly more sane folks said their kids would not be allowed in a restroom alone until they were 12 or 13 at the oldest. Because apparently there are pedofiles sitting in bathrooms stalls across America just waiting for unaccompanied kids to enter.

I agree with the comments that older children should not be in the opposite gender restroom. I am one of them. I have a almost 6 year old son. He is developmentally delayed. He also cannot take care of personal hygiene in the stall. And I still have to brush his teeth for him. Plus he hates the feeling of it. He looks like a perfectly normal little boy.

In fact he is extremely cute! And unless some miracle comes along then he will still be like this when he is 8. And most of the time I am not with my husband or another male that can take him into the mens room.

So I guess I better either get my son used to not being able to ever use a public restroom or get used to the dirty looks, stares and hatred that I am going to get when I take him into the restroom with me! Good grief peopleargh! What AM I supposed to do with my just-turned-six son though he looks 5 in public restrooms now?

He regularly puts things in urinals, drains, etc. A month ago I was shopping in Nordstoms and went to use the bathroom. There were 5 stalls-one of which was completely unusable as someone had plugged it. A women was in front of me with 2 boys 5 and 7-who used 2 of the stales.

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When it was my turn the lady and the youngest son came out of one of the stales-with peed all over the seat and the floor so I decided to wait. Now quite a long line has formed and the lady said-that stale is open to me and I said first off your sons should be using the mens room and not contributing to the line up and second you should clean-up the seat after you or your son peed all over it.

Now I do understand the difficulty of keeping high energy kids close by as my youngest 5-despite the rule that she wait by the sinks for myself and on occasion leave the restroom.

My son does not have delays but he is off the growth charts tall for his age. People often think he is much, much older.

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I was at the grocery store last week, and my 4yo needed the bathroom while we were in the checkout line just after I put all of the groceries on the belt, of course. I finished checking out, keeping an eye on the door, and wondering what was taking him so long. Then I took my cart and waited outside the door. I almost burst in but decided to ask a nice-looking man who was passing by to check instead.

Of course allowances and exceptions should be made for kids with disabilities, but those kids are the exception, and not the rule.

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At one uni I went to, there was a little boy who was disabled and walked with a walker, and he took swimming lessons at the same time as his sister, so mom, brother, and sister would use the female locker room together before and after swimming.

This was fine, and it also would have been fine if the little boy had been physically able-bodied, but developmentally delayed. If that is the situation, best to go into the handicapped toilet stall if there is no family changing room. So, changing a too-young or disabled boy in a bathroom stall would have just resulted in people getting annoyed with you for tying up the bathroom stall. I did that, and must admit it was one of the more disconcerting moments in a long line of unusual situations one comes into when raising a gender non-conforming kid.

I have always read the news stories to my now 10 yr. The parks we go to are full of different equipment for differently-sized and differently-abled kids.

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Besides, if they do everything as tots, what will there be to look forward to when they get older? Or because one of my kids is lazy.

A further reason is that I think kids ought to be spending time with peers if possible at the playground, and that happens less if they are off with their parents climbing on the equipmet meant for older kids.

My kids have managed to get into situations that were hard to get out of. That said, I must admit that I helped my kids learn to ride their training-wheel-free bikes. I helped them learn to read and so on. Those were some things I wanted them to learn before they were likely to figure them out without intervention. Craig - It does happen. But these are rare occurrences. Millions of people use public restrooms every day without being molested or murdered.

It has also lead the push for family restrooms - a good thing being proposed for a bad reason. But I still feel that it is completely inappropriate for a mother to physical attend her 9 year old or 8 or 7 or 6 or 5 son in the restroom. He has to find that embarrassing and emasculating. And we do usually see this discussion in terms of mothers and sons.

I must be the worlds worst dad. Max D. It seems more like a decision that the playground is your time off than a decision with any real rational basis - particularly if you are helping them on some equipment and with developing other skills.

I do take issue at this need to find a bunch of lofty goals in something that is really a choice to be uninvolved because you just want to be uninvolved at the playground.

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And it also makes some find issue with people who choose to do things other ways. Afterall, you have built up all these lofty goals so surely anyone who is doing what you are not is not meeting those needs of their children. If you want to do it, do it. And back off people who do it differently. Ultimately, your children will still achieve whatever they were meant to achieve in life either way. Emily - Except that is not always a fitting rule.

My child was ready for the equipment long before she could reach it. She can do all monkey bars hand-over-hand if given a boost to them though. I took issue with people indicating that it was wrong to do and that you are harming your children in some way by doing it. They may have a very good reason for not wanting their child there. I used to get extremely annoyed when people would put my child on the swings. She was obsessed with them and would swing all day. If she was not in the swings, it was because she had already swung, done her countdown to swing departure, begged and pleaded for more time and been told no more swinging for the day.

Donna: no need to bash me. I prefer not except in an emergencybecause I myself do not want her helped on the monkey bars period.

I do not care what you do with your own kids at the playground. Idly being pushed in a swing which I also will not do or lifted up to pretend to climb the bars is not as beneficial for my kids as having to do things for themselves. And this is a perfectly acceptable thought-process to me. Despite agreeing to put her on the monkey bars a time or two or pushing her on the swing for a few minutes neither needed anymoreshe was expected to play on her own.

I take her to the playground to play with other kids, get some physical exercise and to get some peace, quiet and time to myself while she does it. No grandiose notions of building her physical and mental health. No not putting her on equipment because I want her to learn independence. It is nothing more than pure self-preservation on my part.

And that was my only point. I think the ability to say that is very much being lost in this country. I said the same thing in the thread about leaving kids in the car. I stopped using the YMCA near my school, when one of my male students walked into the ladies locker room.

At the time I was teaching 5th grade and he had been retained in 1st so he was The YMCA buy my house enforces the no kids over 6 in opposite locker room. There are family change rooms for those people who need help and the person accompanying them is the opposite sex.

I see more adults with disabilities using them than people with kids. He goes into the mens to use the bathroom during the visit. But there are no detailed rules on what makes the best free-range or other parent!

boys from the web assumed to be 18 plus. Apr 16,   8 year old boys (and girls), are however, at the age when they are becoming very curious about the bodies of the opposite sex. That is prime "playing doctor" and "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" age. A boy that age is very likely to sneak a look at a woman or girl in the bathroom. There is nothing sexual about it. A SLEEPOVER TO REMEMBER. Rate This Story: Excellent Very Good Good Fair Poor: "Are you gonna be a good boy or a you gonna be a naughty good" Alex asked. I said "ok". Alex let my legs go and Mitchell slid down the sopping wet Goodnite. He got a wipe and and wiped me down then powdered me. "Hahaha I can't believe I'm doing this" Alex and.

I know we will disagree on a number of topics, but just the fact that we are here commenting already shows that we are thinking about the best way to raise our kids and not just letting the media or pseudo experts tell us what kind of parents we should be. So far, so good.

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I do think that there are probably men out there who could take advantage of little boys in a public restroom, but more than likely, something like that would take a little more time than it takes to run in, pee, wash hands, and run out. That is something they need to be aware of in this sex-crazed world. They have to learn how to do it sometime. My 7-year-old who has had one filling is super vigilant now about brushing because the experience of a filling was so traumatic for him.

Consequences to actions can sometimes be the best teachers. Until recently I have been wondering at what age I should start sending my kids into the bathroom themselves in public places. Then, last week, my daughter told me quite firmly at a local restaurant that she was going by herself than you very much and could I please leave her alone. I doubt she washed her hands as well as I would have liked, but she was thrilled with her independence. I expect my son will likewise let me know when he is ready.

Of course, for the sake of other visitors, I will have to make sure he has learned to focus and not point his penis in every conceivable direction while his mind wanders!!! As for the tooth brushing, I have a friend whose son still needs assistance with some personal hygiene issues at age 9.

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But, when they go camping and use public facilities, she lets it go for a day or two just to avoid embarrassing him in public. Donna, you said my reasoning was irrational and I was making it up to cover for being uninvolved. If my life were different, they might have lots of other opportunities to run and climb, or I might have the whole day to spend with them, but this is our life. A single, working mom has to make the most of every minute with her kids. On top of that, most of the time our weather is not conducive to playing on the park equipment.

And both tend toward being wusses, thanks to the way they are coddled by most adults. There were a couple of times he got negative comments over this practice. The community pool is a whole different issue as they have a rule in place where no child under 9 can be unaccompanied in the locker rooms. We did try it once with my now 13 year old daughter taking her she was 12 at the time and were promptly given a warning for not properly supervising her with an adult.

I relieve at various stations throughout two states, so I travel alot. In the past two months I have put 20,kms on my personal car sort of lots of travel. There is one public bathroom on a major highway I would not let my ten year old brother happily by himself.

Not sure why, something just gives me the heebie-jeebies about those restrooms - I dont even use them although the places truckies breakfast is delicious! Now, at ten I reckon he could hold it in for another 40kms until the next possible stop.

But if he couldnt? I dont know. So, I guess there are circumstances I wouldnt feel comfortable letting a child, even a not so small one, go by themselves.

Hell, I felt uncomfortable when my ex would use them! We had some great experiences on the farm, my teenage brother and I, unsupervised. I think he was more steady than I was. We had some fruit trees and a lot of lucern, a lot of hay. We grew some corn; we grew a little wheat. We had a number of things on that farm. We were doing the best we could, but we were not the best farmers. We were surrounded by other farms, and those farms were being farmed by people who knew what they were doing.

Off came my boxers. I was lying there half naked in front of my best friends. I couldn't believe they had done this to me. Alex had the "honors" of pulling up the Goodnites.

All of a sudden I felt a great feeling it was great. Still it was over powered by having some of my friends putting them on me. They tied my legs back up and started on untying my hands. Then they pulled off my shirt. I was just lying there in a Goodnite and I couldn't do anything. Then came the teasing "awww look at the ickle baby" Mitchell said.

Alex came back a few minutes later carrying two sippy cups his mom often looked after his younger cousins". One was full of milk the other was just water. Mitchell held my nose while Alex poured the liquids down my throat.

I had no choice, I had to swallow.

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They closed the drapes and turned out the light and shut the door. About 2 hours later of just lying there I needed to pee badly. They came in asking "what? I'll be good I promise" I said. I realized I was speaking to my friends as if they were my parents. Then they laughed and said "go on, pee.

We'll be back soon". I heard the front door of the house close. I struggled and struggled against the ropes but I couldn't get them off no matter how hard I tried. Then it happened, I couldn't hold it any longer. The warm rush of pee into the Goodnite felt strangely nice. I laid there in the pee while it went cold.

A couple of minutes later the front door opened again. They opened the door, opened the drapes and the window. I moaned. Have you peed yet" they asked. They untied my legs and I struggled this time and actually kicked Alex in the nose. He looked at me with tears in his eyes "ohhhhhh your gonna get it" he said. He pinned my legs down. I was so shocked I had kicked my friend in the nose that I didn't even struggle anymore. I said "ok". Alex let my legs go and Mitchell slid down the sopping wet Goodnite.

He got a wipe and and wiped me down then powdered me. Alex just laughed. Mitchell picked my legs up and slid a diaper under them and lowered my butt down onto it.

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